mit Ulrich Irnich & Markus Kuckertz

Shownotes

The 32nd episode focuses on how companies can outperform their competitors by credibly promoting diversity and inclusion. The guest is Jessica Guerrero, Global Head of Cloud GTM Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Google in New York.

Jessica and her team at Google develop, implement and harmonise Google’s diversity, equity and inclusion strategy. They believe that diversity and inclusion are not only based on equity and humanity, but also on business imperatives: Diverse companies outperform their competitors in areas such as innovation and profitability.

Uli, Markus and Jessica discuss how companies should approach this topic: Like any other business challenge – with clear goals, dedicated teams, comprehensible plans and monitored KPIs. Together, they advocate starting with leadership first and foremost: The accountability and exemplary behaviour of frontline leaders and managers are critical to success.

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Hosts: Ulrich Irnich & Markus Kuckertz // Production: Daniel Sprügel, Maniac Studios (https://maniacstudios.com/) // Editorial: Marcus Pawlik © Digital Pacemaker Podcast 2023

Zusammenfassung

In this episode of the Digital Pacemaker Podcast, we delve into the crucial topic of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the corporate landscape. Our guest, Jessica Guerrero, Global Head of Cloud GTM Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Google, shares invaluable insights on how organizations can leverage DEI as a strategic advantage in today’s dynamic market. The conversation revolves around the necessity of implementing DEI initiatives not just as ethical obligations but as core business strategies that can drive innovation and profitability.

Throughout our discussion, we examine the accountability that comes with promoting diversity in leadership ranks. Jessica emphasizes that attracting more women and marginalized communities into leadership roles is not just a matter of representation; it is essential for fostering a culture that encourages a variety of perspectives. She highlights that organizations cannot simply state their intention to improve DEI metrics; they must back those intentions with concrete actions that connect to organizational objectives.

Uli and I explore how diversity translates into improved performance. Jessica references significant studies, such as those from McKinsey, which point out that more diverse companies significantly outperform their less diverse counterparts in various financial metrics. We discuss how having a diverse team enhances decision-making and fosters creativity, ultimately leading to superior business outcomes. Jessica pinpoints the need for companies to establish clear objectives and monitor key performance indicators (KPIs) related to their DEI initiatives, treating these initiatives as serious business challenges rather than supplementary goals.

As our conversation evolves, we touch upon the practicality of incorporating DEI in everyday business practices. Jessica explains how Google integrates DEI across its operations and product development processes, making it an integral part of their strategy rather than an isolated initiative. This includes embedding diverse perspectives into product design, as seen in Google Maps and Pixel’s camera features, which cater to a broad spectrum of user needs and identities.

Leadership plays a pivotal role in advancing DEI. Jessica argues that leaders must adopt an agile and open mindset, willing to navigate the complexities of diverse teams to foster innovation. We explore the importance of leadership accountability in ensuring that DEI goals align with business outcomes, highlighting that leaders should not only be pursuing profit margins but also creating inclusive environments that recognize the value of diverse experiences.

In our closing remarks, we reflect on the emotional dimension of DEI work. Jessica emphasizes that true motivation comes not only from financial metrics but also from connecting with a sense of purpose and belonging, both for employees and the communities they serve. This human-centered approach to DEI is increasingly vital as organizations adapt to evolving workforce expectations, especially in a post-COVID world where flexibility and work-life balance are paramount.

The episode wraps up with both Uli and Jessica sharing their personal motivations and hopes for the future of DEI in the workplace, affirming that the path to genuine inclusion is both a responsibility and an opportunity for companies striving for excellence in today’s society. This discussion serves as a reminder that fostering diversity is not merely a checkbox initiative; it is critical to building resilient and innovative organizations.

Transkript

Speaker0:[0:00] So when I think about that, it can be no longer around like, oh, we hope to have more women in our leadership ranks. We have to match that with real action. And with that action also comes accountability.

Music:[0:14] Music

Speaker0:[0:28] Welcome back to the Digital Pacemaker Podcast, hosted by Uli Ohnig and myself, Markus Kukac. Today’s conversation explores how companies outperform their competitors when it comes to various aspects of authentic diversity and inclusion. We are excited to welcome Jessica Guerrero, Global Head of Cloud GTM Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at Google, as our guest. It’s a pleasure to have you with us, Jessica. Welcome. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Jessica and her team at Google develop, implement and harmonize the company’s diversity, equity and inclusion strategy. And I would also like to welcome my co-host Uli, as every time at this stage. And yeah, Uli, of course, I have a question for you where we will discuss with Jessica today the economic advantages of diversity and equity for businesses. So what’s your experience? How does diversity improve the performance of teams from your perspective?

Speaker0:[1:23] Thank you very much, Markus, for the introduction. And also, I’m so glad, Jessica, to have you here with us. Now, looking at diversity and inclusion, I think that’s the most important topic to get really a competitive advantage because we are living in a fast-paced, changing world. Innovation is around us and it changes so fast, right? And for this kind of pace, you need also diverse teams. You need diverse thinking, diverse education, and also getting that together. And, you know, with my experience over the last decades, this is a massive change in how teams are performing and how teams are developing themselves. So, therefore, that’s really a big advantage to have that and drive this kind of diversity into that. So, I’m so glad, Jessica, to have you here. So, also, again, a warm welcome from my side. And, you know, Jessica, our guest, she joined Google in 2020 and is serving as a global head of Cloud GTM, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, since early 2021.

Speaker0:[2:32] Jessica’s prior experience includes holding senior positions in renowned institutions such as the Wharton School, New York University, Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania. Educationally, she holds a bachelor degree in sociological and English from Lehigh University and a master degree in higher education and higher education administration from the University of Pennsylvania. Jessica, before we dive into our topic of diversity, I’m very interested in looking at your CV and really the prestige universities you were in, what motivates you to transform or transition from academic world into the private sector?

Speaker0:[3:23] Thank you very much for that question. For me, I’ve spent the majority of my professional career working within some of the most highly selective institutions on the planet on trying to rethink their admission strategy, how they design engagement for underrepresented communities, as well as how they set up everyone for success. For me, spending such a good chunk of my time doing that in the education sector, I found a strong connection to that work in the technology sector, specifically because to your earlier point about innovation and how we are in a technological age, which will shape the future of the human experience, I wanted to ensure that underrepresented communities in particular were not being left out of that reshaping of what our, you know, how we work and how we live would look like, as well as making sure that we have the most innovative minds.

Speaker0:[4:27] The most innovative teams leading this reshaping. And the only way that you get true innovation is through diversity. So I found it really exciting and challenging to kind of switch sectors in this regard, because I want it to be at the forefront of shaping our future. It’s a really interesting topic. And as always, we discussed in advance of this recording the different views you have and we have split it into three theses and the first one is Jessica you emphasize that diversity and inclusion are not only grounded in justice and humanity but also in economic requirements companies with significant diversity outshine their competition in aspects such as innovation and profitability.

Speaker0:[5:13] Secondly you advise that companies committed to addressing this issue should treat it like any other business challenge by establishing clear objectives, dedicated teams, comprehensible plans and monitored KPIs. And lastly, finally, you make the case for starting with leadership. The accountability and exemplary behavior of frontline leaders and managers are critical.

Speaker0:[5:35] So quite broad topic, but quite interesting and also quite interesting to see the view, not just from you, but also from the inside out from what is Google doing? And if we come to diversity and inclusion as an economic requirement, maybe to the first question, I think it’s fascinating to hear that justice and humanity are linked to economic requirements. Can you explain this relationship in more detail? For sure. Well, first and foremost, there is a correlation between how diverse a company’s leadership is and its financial performance. There are a number of academic and other studies that have been published globally that provide data sets and more information on this, but I’ll call out a few just to kind of elaborate on the business case on why this is important. So McKinsey produces a report every few years on why diversity matters in 2015, 2019, and then they have different focus areas within those reports like women in the workplace.

Speaker0:[6:39] Racial equity in the workplace, and so on. And so in their findings, they essentially were able to draw the correlation between companies in the top quartile for racial and ethnic diversity are 35 percent more likely to have financial returns above national industry means. And that’s specifically focusing on the U.S. When you think about gender diversity in particular, companies in the top quartile for gender diversity are 15 percent more likely to have financial returns above global industry means. And specifically for both race and gender, companies in the top quartile for both race and gender are 25 percent more likely to have financial returns above industry means. And so when we think about or kind of double click on why in particular that’s the case, it kind of connects to better decision making, better coverage of different kind of market segments, depending on what products or services your organization is providing. There’s a ton of research on when you have diverse teams, the outcomes of diverse teams far outweigh more homogenous teams or teams that resemble similar identities and backgrounds. And so it’s really about the quality of output.

Speaker0:[7:58] The creativity and innovation that comes with diversity, as well as better decision making and long term forecasting of success of the organization tied to how diverse your leadership and your organization is.

Speaker0:[8:12] That’s quite impressive, actually, what you just said in terms of evidence and as a studies. So from your point of view, what implications does this have for companies? For example, how should teams be assembled in the future and what structural approach would you suggest? For sure. And I’ll also quickly add for just to provide more diversity of thought on the topic. Deloitte publishes similar reports. Given my academic background, you have Harvard that produces reports within their Harvard Business Review. These are kind of quick two to three read articles that are predicated on longitudinal studies that have found these same findings. Given my background in the Wharton School, there’s a entire team of global researchers like Adam Grant, Stephanie Creary, Rachel, who investigate DEI within organizations to really prove what this effectiveness is for the outcome of a business. So there’s tons of research out there that helps people really understand what the true business case for DEI is beyond social justice and humanity centric issues. But to your question about the implications does this have for companies and how teams should be assembled in the future, this is really tricky because different countries have different laws on how you can actually make hiring decisions.

Speaker0:[9:41] Based on people’s identities, right? So I never want to encourage companies to go out and, you know, hire a bunch of women, right? Solely because they are women, right? You want to make sure that you are, you know, running an unbiased and objective search when you are looking to build a workforce, a team, or even a leadership, you know, within an organization. But what we found through lots of research is that typical hiring processes are ridden with bias. They actually aren’t objective, which in turn leave a lot of women who are highly qualified and other underrepresented communities that are highly qualified for roles out of consideration. So the first step is to really change our thinking and really evaluate our structures on how we make decisions on who gets to come and join our company. And lots of decision-making at the leadership level are based on networks. You know, you don’t go out and typically post a role and cast a wide net. You typically look around at the other leaders on your team and ask them who they know that might be a good fit.

Speaker0:[10:57] And typically, because men are still overrepresented in leadership roles globally, a lot of their networks tend to be men. And if that is the criteria for how you make a hiring decision is based on who you know, we know historically women and other underrepresented communities don’t have the same type of networks that men typically have. And so I would start right there. Do we want to actually hire someone based on who they know that still might do a good job in the role? Or do we actually want to run an objective process, an inclusive process that allows people who have the background that we’re looking for and the background being a skill set and proven successes to be considered for the role regardless of who they know in the organization? And I recognize that that might feel like taking a big risk because who you know matters as it relates to their ability to fit within an organization. But fit often is code for, you know, do you sound like me? Do we have similar backgrounds?

Speaker0:[12:02] Do we talk the same language? Do we have the same people that we know that can connect us outside of work? And it isn’t really based on can you actually do the job that’s going to benefit our company in the long run? So those are things as far as, you know, how should teams be assembled? I think as far as implications are concerned, and this is connected to the work that you all do, the work that we do from a technology perspective, from an innovation perspective, the acceleration of change across the world based on technology is unlike any other thing that we are aware of in the history of humanity. Yeah.

Speaker0:[12:43] And when you think about how technology is disrupting the available jobs of the future, how we work, and we’ve seen that through COVID, to what our day-to-day lives are, just making things more readily available and convenient. This idea of what we do for work, how organizations will be organized.

Speaker0:[13:02] Will drastically change and be so much more people-centric than we can ever imagine. Because technology will be able to outsource a lot of the things that we hire people now. to do for the future. So the implications are, I think, if companies don’t really understand that they need to really focus on how to work across lines of difference, the global talent market for the future is a diverse talent market. When you think about the numbers of people becoming highly educated, as well as in STEM fields, what emerging markets look like, they are in countries of color, they’re in continents of color. And so if leaders were to be the leaders now want to prepare for leadership of the future, it is imperative for them to build a skill set around learning how to lead across dimensions of difference, to build workplaces where people, regardless of their identities, can thrive, to expand their cultural competency, to be able to work across different regions in the world, as well as understand truly how to motivate and support people in a people-centric organization.

Speaker0:[14:11] Uli, maybe a short break out regarding your experience. So what was your most diverse team experience as an employee or as a leader, as you want? And what did you observe? What did you experience in terms of benefits? In the 1990s, I worked a couple of years with General Electrics, and this was a company that spread across the world with a lot of different business units and across, I would say, nearly all countries. And that was, for me, the first big benefit to see how people from different countries with different, let’s say.

Speaker0:[14:51] Color, with different race, with different backgrounds are coming together and developing new technology. And it was so fascinating which kind of power you really set free when you have this kind of diverse teams right it’s it starts with diverse thinking it’s really different perspectives and the color is really how you enable this kind of diverse thinking and generate a room where people feel real safe to get their opinion and also take their let’s say perspective in and that’s all the power right you get really new innovations the acceleration of development having this kind of networks and changing also your leadership style in in that kind of things that you not always need to reinvent things you first have to ask in your really big community what is already invented and you can take it from there and that was now more than 30 years ago and i i never forget that and that’s um especially in And the pace, 30 years ago, the pace in technology was a bit lower than today, nowadays, right? But we experienced that already. And that’s the beauty and the advantage in having this kind of diverse teams.

Speaker0:[16:13] Jessica, you highlight the importance of addressing the issues we mentioned, like any other business challenge. What exactly does this mean from your perspective? There are a lot of things when we think about.

Speaker0:[16:26] DEI that separated from the main focus of a business. And so when we think about DEI, we think primarily about what our hiring strategy is. We think about perhaps what our performance strategy is and how we reward performance internally. And we think about overall wellbeing within an organization around climate. Do people feel included? Do people feel welcome? Do people feel that they can belong? And I think that’s important. And that’s really, to me, the beginning of DEI. How we should really expand our notion of DEI is really connected to, to me, innovation. It’s connected to every aspect of our business, even with what we provide to the world. And so the first thing is, if you look at DEI as a business challenge, how can we, number one, solve for DEI, right? I know that we’re always going to be working on DEI because as society changes, so do different dynamics between different groups, you know, and I recognize that. But, you know, we should always be working towards an aspirational goal around this work. But aspirational doesn’t mean that we can’t put real goals around it, that we can’t fully equip it.

Speaker0:[17:54] The teams driving DEI with the proper amount of resources, that we can’t hold people accountable to making sure that we are working towards these types of goals. So when I think about that, it can be no longer around like, oh, we hope to have more women in our leadership ranks. We have to match that with real action. And with that action also comes accountability.

Speaker0:[18:19] We wouldn’t say we hope to have a great marketing strategy, but not put any resources towards it, not really identify exactly what we’re looking to accomplish, and then really equip and empower a team to work towards those goals. But we don’t do the same with DEI. And I think if we started to put that infrastructure and that support around this work and really see it as a business challenge, it will pay off dividends in the future. And not just beyond what the makeup of our organization looks like, but also the direct impact on our financial outcomes, as I mentioned before, you know, and this could open up new pathways to different, you know, revenue within our organization. It could enhance the quality of products that we provide, you know, to our customer base. It could allow us to work more efficiently internally within an organization as Uli mentioned about psychological safety being one of the foundational elements to innovation. You know, if we made everyone feel like this was a place that they could thrive and we really leveraged their creativity and their great ideas, we would inevitably be able to produce, you know, quality ideas, better problem solving, better products. If you get DEI right and you actually connect it to or see it as a real business challenge and build that structure in your organization.

Speaker0:[19:47] As I mentioned before, this is just the gift that keeps giving over time.

Speaker0:[19:52] Could you provide some insights into what this looks like in practice? So what are your experiences from the implementation perspective? For sure. And I think Google has a really good ecosystem around DEI that aligns a lot with some of the research.

Speaker0:[20:10] We typically see DEI beyond just our people processes, and it’s embedded in every aspect of what we do. So although we have our HR or human resources teams driving DEI from the elements of a life cycle of an employee, and I’m thinking specifically around hiring to ensure that our processes are equitable and inclusive, are not driven based on bias, that we’re making sound decisions on who gets to come in our company, to our performance processes, to ensure that everyone has a fair, equitable opportunity to be evaluated objectively and be considered for advancement within our organization. We also look to support groups of people that have assimilated through employee resource groups in community building and advocacy around things that the company can be doing better specifically for those organizations.

Speaker0:[21:10] And for the most part, that’s really run by our human resources teams in collaboration with our leadership. But when we say DEI is embedded in every aspect of the business, we have teams that sit not in HR, but in our strategy and operations organization, in our innovation and cultural transformation organizations. We have teams that sit in our engineering teams that actually look to embed DEI in different aspects of our business. So I’ll highlight our engineering team in particular. We have a whole product inclusion and accessibility team that sits in Google’s core engineering function.

Speaker0:[21:52] Their job is to drive a inclusive design thinking process in how we build our products. Google sees our customer base for Google’s products, everyone on the planet. If we are to build products for everyone, every single person on the planet, we need to have diverse thinking as it relates to how we build those products. And Uli, you mentioned earlier around it starts with thinking, and that’s the point. And sometimes having a different viewpoint can be connected to your lived experiences. It’s hard for you to imagine what a woman’s needs are with, you know, a Pixel phone if you are not a woman, you know, and that is, that’s okay to say. It would be helpful to test products with groups of women to ensure that women can use it. That’s consistent across many different identity groups. It’s hard to build products around accessibility if you are not tapping into communities that might have disabilities to better understand what’s going to be a good product for them. And so when I think about embedding this notion of DEI into every aspect of the business.

Speaker0:[23:05] For us, we’re thinking about our products and services. How can we launch this design thinking process that takes different viewpoints? How can we ensure that our customer base is fully represented in how we build products? And then how can we ensure that everyone, regardless of their identity.

Speaker0:[23:23] Thinks differently about how they build these products? So yes, you might not necessarily be able to have a woman’s viewpoint if you’re not a woman. But over time, if this is our process to trigger in your mind for you to ask questions before you launch a product as a man to say, how would a woman feel about this? You know, then that will then force you to take action to include women or to do your own research on to figure out how can we make sure that we’re providing products for all. And so that’s just some ways that we at Google are really trying to drive DEI from many different aspects beyond our people processes because we see the benefit of what DEI can have across all elements of our organization. If we look at the output or outcome side of this approach, are there any products or services that have been developed because of this? There’s a number of things that I’ll call out. I think my, although I sit in Google Cloud, I think my favorite Google product is Google Maps. And when I think about all the different ways that I’ve leaned on Google Maps to navigate the world at large, it’s been probably my most trusted Google product. Probably runner up is Google Translate. When I think about the accessibility features built in Google Maps for people who may be hard of hearing, to people who may not have vision.

Speaker0:[24:51] To people who actually might have physical disabilities, that it’s difficult for them to navigate spaces that they haven’t been ever, ever visited. Our Google Maps, I think, is a great example of how accessibility has been built within the usage of Google Maps for everyone, including folks that may have disabilities that may impact the way that they see, experience, and navigate the world.

Speaker0:[25:21] Pixel phone is another example for us specifically around skin tones. So our pixel camera has been developed to actually highlight melanated skin tones in a way that is more accurate to what their skin tones look like in real life. I identify as a woman of color. So that is something that I find, you know, very pleasing when you think about taking a picture with many different skin tones and the camera and the flash, you know, acknowledging that there’s different skin tones, but still highlighting it to accuracy, which I think is really great. Specifically for us in Google Cloud, you know, there’s a number of things through our AI ML efforts, specifically mitigating bias and harm and how we launch a lot of our AI currently, especially with the launch of Bard.

Speaker0:[26:12] When I think about Google video chat, everything from inclusive emojis, to closed captions. There is a number of things that Google products have incorporated, not only just accessibility features, but being mindful of different identities across gender, racial lines, even the ability to add preferred pronouns into your Google video chat name before you sign in are all ways that we leverage our DEI processes and how we build products for everyone. Uli, your role is much broader than just in the German market. You are at home in the Vodafone Global Digital and IT ecosystem.

Speaker0:[26:53] And you have just mentioned the purpose of Vodafone. If you look at diversity, equity and inclusion, what’s your experience? How do you see Vodafone from the inside-out perspective with regard to that topic? You know, our mission is connect for a better future, right? And you have three, let’s say, main pillars that’s shaping the digital society, having inclusion that echo very much what Jessica said. Having everybody connected and giving everybody the access to the digital world is so essential for us. And also driving, let’s say, our planet. We have just one. So how can technology help to save our planet? And looking at the beauty of diversity and inclusion is, especially what Jessica mentioned, you cannot develop an inclusive product if you don’t have all perspective in. Therefore, you need to do that. besides, let’s say, gender, ethnics, and colors, and whatever.

Speaker0:[27:55] You can see that very easily. If you see, for example, Europe, you have a lot of different countries with different cultures, with different heritages. And you see also in the working relation that you need to include people from different countries into this kind of working process to get the best results out of this. And having that into your mind, right, That, for example, the Germans work different than the UK people and working different. But this is not a failure. It’s a gift, right? It’s really something which enriches your life. So when it comes to implementation, it all starts with leadership. Jessica, you recommend initiating this change by focusing on the one ingredient leadership. What does it mean? How does it look like? I think this is actually the most important step, but probably the hardest step. I think it starts with getting leaders in place who have a really flexible mindset around what they’re looking to achieve for an organization around innovation, long-term strategy, beyond just profit. Because I feel like why I say that is because it takes a really diverse and comprehensive mindset to understand the connections between revenue plus innovation, plus DEI, plus having cultural competency and a mindset, plus the stamina.

Speaker0:[29:23] To actually persist anyway, even when there’s internal trepidation around assembling diverse teams that lead to a diverse organization. Uli, you mentioned something earlier, just about like cultural misalignment around different, you know, teams from different companies and how it’s all a good thing. In organizational effectiveness theory, you have this like forming, storming, norming process that most teams go through. There’s some research that came out of Columbia Business School by a woman named Catherine Phillips, who talked about when you have diverse teams, they spend a little bit more time in the storming phase because they have to spend more extra time because they come from different viewpoints, different backgrounds, and so on to build connectivity and psychological safety. But what we, and most people give up in that storming phase, they say, oh, you know, to give a real example, they’ll say, oh, you know, we hired a bunch of women in our organization. That was a big win for us. You know, and as you work to incorporate what women bring to a team based on different viewpoints, different ideas.

Speaker0:[30:42] Different ways of problem solving. And then there’s this tension that may exist. Most people say, see, I thought we have more diversity, but it’s not working. We hired all these women and now we have bad experiences. Maybe it didn’t work. But what’s actually happening in that experience is it’s slowly but surely really pushing multiple identities to expand their viewpoints on how they approach problems or how they come up with new concepts. So you take more time in the storming phase, but eventually to Uli’s point, you know, it outcome far outweighs, you know, what it would have been if it was a homogenous team. So you have to have a leader first and foremost in place who truly understands that process and is willing and has the stamina to persist through that process because they believe and they know it will lead to greater results.

Speaker0:[31:38] The second piece is, given how organizations operate in this moment of time, I mean, every company wants to make money. So you can’t allow your desire to make money to usurp these particular goals. And to me, the way that you allow them to exist harmoniously in an organization is by incentivizing the leadership to support these goals. When you think about most leaders, you know, and they look at what they’re supposed to drive for their particular areas in an organization, it typically is profit for the most part. You might have new product launches, you might have to do some other things, but it’s almost solely focused on driving revenue.

Speaker0:[32:21] Leaders, even outside of DEI, aren’t even really held accountable for driving a healthy organization. Forget DEI, it’s like, is a leader held accountable for how their organization operates, the climate, the tone, how teams work, how people feel, how they show up and be their best selves. You know, so if you can hold leaders accountable to, we want you to drive revenue. And also we want to have a really positive culture and there’s going to be some harsh consequences if we have good profit, but we also have a terrible organization. As a result, a leader needs to be held accountable to. The additional layer I’ll do to that is how are we tying leaders, their performance, their bonuses, et cetera, to also their DEI goals. You know, so if we have these aspirational goals of diversifying our leadership or diversifying our organization, and then you have leaders who still hire the same people from the same backgrounds, the same ways of thinking, the same ways of doing our leaders, you know, our leaders held accountable. So you have to get to me a right, the right leader, a right group of leaders that really buy into the business case plus the moral case. And is willing to hold themselves accountable, but also their leadership teams and their leadership bench and so on to drive in these goals. And when I say hold them accountable, I mean like tying it to what their outcomes are. So my takeaway would be it’s really about mindset and accountability.

Speaker0:[33:48] What would you think is the most effective way for companies to begin this process with their leadership? Do you have any suggestions? I can share some things that we’re looking to do at Google, but also some things that research would really say. I think at Google, for us, we are exploring numbers of ways to tie DEI-related accountability to leadership outcomes.

Speaker0:[34:11] Every leader at the VP level has some sort of DEI-related OKR or KPI that they are holding themselves and their leadership teams accountable to driving. And that, for Google, was a big win. So even if you aren’t necessarily a leader that has a particular mindset, you still know it’s something that you need to work towards and you are given resources as well as support to drive towards those outcomes. When I think about mindset shift, we also do a number of upskilling at Google where leaders are required to participate in a number of.

Speaker0:[34:50] Development trainings, coaching sessions, you know, that help leaders understand why this is important. One thing that I think we take for granted is that everyone has this particular mindset, you know, but a lot of times people don’t. We, in many different ways, grew up in homogenous experiences that have shaped the way that we see a world. And we assume that even through education that all of us have learned the business value of DEI, but that’s not true. That is something that is a very new phenomenon, you know. So assuming that people even understand the business case, I mentioned a few articles, publications, et cetera, that go into great detail about this. You know, this isn’t required reading for anyone, just people like me who either do this work or find it interesting. We have to upskill leaders to basically understand what’s the new research coming out.

Speaker0:[35:42] Help them understand the connection points between what this research is to their actual jobs and work with them as they’re kind of on their learning journey and their growth journey to understand how this fits within their core role to also understand the implications of the future. And so at Google, we’ve been doing a number of interventions with leaders, some of them required, some of them strongly suggested that we’re like, we’re urging leaders to really get there. The other piece that I think is kind of more widespread, if you don’t have the infrastructure or a leader at the top that’s demanding these things within an organization, I think you can never underestimate change agents within your organization that actually can push these things to be more crystallized. And I’m thinking about that one leader who has a lot of influence, that has this mindset, encouraging that person to step more in the forefront to take leadership of this and use their social capital in an organization to get some of these things to be a part of the infrastructure is really key. The best way I can put it is however you get there. The point is to get there. So even if you start.

Speaker0:[36:53] Not necessarily with the mindset shift or even accountability mechanisms, but even let the market drive your interest. Going back to every company wants to make money. So even if you start with a what if or what does it look like if we ventured a particular product into this particular customer base that we haven’t entertained before? What does it look like to just simply say we work better with some of our international teams? How can we be thinking about the future and let something bubble up in a grassroots way. Those are all ways to still kind of move companies and leaders along this journey than just like hardcore requiring them to do so. So Uli, we had some quiet discussions on the term mindset internally when it comes to change. So what’s your take on the term mindset in terms of diversity, equity and inclusion when it comes to leadership?

Speaker0:[37:48] Jessica referred already to many of them but especially you know let’s say we are in a world where we have a lot of intellectual people right and we all know that going to the gym is healthy eating good food is healthy but we don’t do it so why is that right you need to have someone like let’s say a change coach or something like that who helps you to understand it’s not just logical it’s also the emotional part coming to the emotional part you need to do something right you need to get going you need to make your experience you you feel and see the diversity around you and how diverse teams attract new diverse people to your company for me it’s always besides the logical thing it has a lot of to do with the emotions and you know our learning effect is much stronger with emotions than just on a logical thing. And therefore, I would encourage each leader.

Speaker0:[38:51] To do something, right? Not just think about it, act. If you act, reflect on the things you are learning and share that with other people. And with that sharing, you identify already, yes, your mind is just in one direction. And then you feel, oh, my goodness, there are perspectives. I haven’t even thought about it. what i experienced over my decades now in in business is don’t believe what your brain is telling you because in most of the cases you have a view where you can swear that this is the right thing but then you you get proven wrong right because your mind is telling you something which is not the case and therefore this kind of mental agility is in a very important topic into that And if you have diverse teams, you learn more, you get a brighter perspective. And that’s really beautiful. But it just happens when you start doing it. We can’t end the conversation without talking about the future.

Speaker0:[39:56] So, Jessica, how do you envision the progression of this issue? Are there any emerging trends you foresee? Before I answer that question, can I please just echo some of Uli’s sentiments about just the emotion? I think we forget, and especially in a business context, to your point, everything has to be based on logic. What’s the business case? How is this tied to revenue and so on? To me, I think something that is forgotten a lot in this conversation is the emotional element, which is also the human element. And at the end of the day, most humans want to belong to something greater than themselves.

Speaker0:[40:38] They want to actually do work that is connected to some sort of purpose that also has some sort of impact. And we are motivated in the long term by things that are inherently good. When we think about things that are good, it is connected to what we can do for others. It’s a very altruistic connection that we have as humans. And so to me, when I think about DEI, the work is inherently good. Why wouldn’t you want to work with others who have great ideas towards something that’s innovative and great? Why wouldn’t you want to be on a team where everybody feels good about themselves and feels valued and feels a sense of purpose in the work that they’re doing? And when companies can really create that environment where that gets to flourish, you know, I think a company can be unstoppable in what its contributions are to So I just wanted to highlight that because I know we spent a lot of time talking about the logic and the business case, but to me, that always wins over the logic because inherently as humans, that’s what we’re drawn to.

Speaker0:[41:48] And I think that point actually connects to the emerging trends that we foresee. So Deloitte, a few years ago, right at the height of COVID, produced a report about the changing landscape of the workplace and what top talent around the world will demand in the future. And you’re starting to see a shift, not only in some of the younger generations that will eventually be the majority of the workforce, but also with women globally. That folks, people want to be in an organization that prioritizes work-life balance, flexibility, well-being. People will choose to go to an organization to make less as well as to have lesser titles in order for a better work experience. This is the first time we’re seeing this trend and it feels like it’s here to stay. I think COVID had really accelerated where we probably were going as a species towards that. But during COVID, we realized, hey, as much as I want to connect with my colleagues.

Speaker0:[42:57] Being around my spouse, my partner, my children, my furry children, whatever your family makeup looks like is equally as important, if not more important than connecting with my colleagues. So, you know, something we see in the United States, and I’m sure takes place in many places globally, is this hybrid work experience where people can kind of pick and choose which days they’ll go into office, what days they’ll be home. We’ve seen people take lesser roles, lesser money for more flexibility, for more balance in what they’re being held accountable for as it relates to productivity, because there is this desire to want to feel fully human in the workplace and not have to jeopardize that just to make a living.

Speaker0:[43:46] And so I think that trend is going to be the standard in the future. And I think the quicker companies can really understand that and reimagine how they hold their teams accountable to what work looks like and work no longer looks like. If I can’t physically see you working at your desk in an office, then you’re not working. I think that leaders have to reimagine how they encourage their teams to work and what work looks like. If organizations can’t put together a package or an experience that takes into consideration what a person’s basic needs are. And basic needs are sick time, being there for, you know, their families in time and need and not having that to be negatively impact their opportunities in the workplace, to feeling like they are in a space that’s psychologically safe, where they can share ideas, feedback, and so on. There’s another woman, her name’s Linda Hill, I believe from a researcher at Harvard, it talks a lot about how the upcoming generations no longer want to be told what to do in the workplace. This very like hierarchical type of operation, but more so they want to co-create.

Speaker0:[45:00] With an organization for the future is what I think the workforce is going to demand moving forward, which also connects to diverse teams and innovation. People don’t want to say, this is the product, this is what we’re doing, everyone has their assignments and go on. But they want to iterate with thought leaders. They want to be seen as a thought partner in the workplace on how to drive progress. And so to me, this is the future, but that’s not currently the standard in how we work. So I think the sooner that leaders can be flexible and kind of move with the rate of change and understand that they’re here to procreate with their teams and not tell their teams what to do, to reimagine what working looks like for people in order to create more inclusivity for people that might have family restraints or physical restraints or so on. Even the notion of global teams is something that has taken storm during COVID of like, hey, I can work with someone in a different country due to technology. If we can just embrace this as like the way we work and the standard, I think that companies and leaders will be ready for what the future holds. Thank you very much to both of you. Let’s come to the conclusion. I think it was a very inspiring discussion.

Speaker0:[46:14] Let’s think about what were your key takeaways from the conversation. Uli, do you want to start? Of course. First of all, thank you very much, Jessica, for that great talk. Three things were my key takeaway. It all starts with leadership and the ability to have agile mindsets. The other topic I took away is all the statistics and you see the correlation of performance and output you can achieve with diversity. And the third one is in the storming phase, good leaders are calm and wait for the best team composition to get really the best result out of it. So, Jessica, what would be your takeaway from today’s conversation?

Speaker0:[46:58] Well, first and foremost, I’m so inspired by Vodafone and just the fact that you all have this platform to really forward people’s thinking within your organization and beyond is very impressive to me. And a takeaway for me to also, you know, explore ways to implement at Google. So number one, thank you for just being a thought leader in this space. The second piece is that I’m really inspired by Marcus, your leadership, as well as Uli, specifically around some of the things that you all are looking to drive within your organization around really seeing diverse teams as the standard in ways that you all operate, that I think as a leader in the segment that you drive a global leader as your organization, many other companies aspire to be and can get behind with how you all operate. And I think that that’s really great. And the third thing is to not forget that the human and emotional element is ultimately what drives and also connects us. You know, and when I think about different identities, sometimes they can feel very divisive because we’re always looking at ways in which we are different. But the emotional element, you know, the moral element.

Speaker0:[48:12] Is what connects us all, regardless of what our identities hold and our experiences in life are. And so I’m really inspired by the notion of making sure that that’s still front and center, despite what the logic is telling us, because that ultimately will win, you know, for everyone, if that is something that’s leading the way. Jessica, we have a small tradition at this stage of every episode of the Digital Pacemaker podcast. And this question is actually not that much around your role or or your job it’s it’s maybe more about you as a person and about your career and and it’s a special closing question for our guests that is what motivates you to get up in the morning what is your personal purpose my personal purpose I actually have four children, ages nine, six, four, and two.

Speaker0:[49:05] And I am motivated by doing everything that I can to create a lived experience for them that is better than my own. And I had a lovely childhood. I have a lovely lived experience, but I recognize that there are still things in the world that may prohibit them from reaching their full potential, whether it’s biases, lack of access to resources, technology, and so on. And so for me, it’s really important to do everything I can, especially being a leader in this type of work, to ensure that they have every opportunity open to them if they so choose.

Speaker0:[49:47] And I would want that for anyone’s children. But, you know, for mine in particular, that when I look at them, that’s what keeps me going. Uli, I’m very sure that resonates with you.

Speaker0:[49:56] Absolutely. Absolutely. I have two sons. They are already 34 and 36. So they are quite old already. But I have already a niece and two grandchilds. It resonates absolutely with me. Because, you know, I’m still, my wife say I’m still a kid, right? and I try to find my talent in any new game. And also I invite them, if it’s arting or something like that, to find what they love and try really always to, let’s say, strengthen their strengths, that they are really focusing on their identity. So therefore, yeah, it resonates totally with me. I love that.

Speaker0:[50:40] Jessica, if people want to connect with you, yeah, how can they start that? I am on LinkedIn and I’m pretty active on LinkedIn, so you can definitely find me there. I’m happy for you all to share my email if you so choose, but LinkedIn might be the quickest way to connect with me. But I’m happy to continue the conversation further with anyone who wants to do it. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks a lot, Jessica, for the insights and for being our guest. It was really interesting. and I’m really keen on seeing all the feedbacks on the topics we raised. It was really interesting. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Digital Pacemaker podcast on how do companies outperform their competitors with diversity and inclusion. We were joined by Jessica Guerrero, Global Head of Cloud GTM Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at Google. For more information on this episode, please check the show notes, which also include related links. If you have any questions or would like to engage in a discussion, feel free to use the posts and comment sections on LinkedIn. We eagerly await your feedback and comments. Digital Pacemaker podcast airs every 14 days on Tuesdays on Spotify, Apple and wherever you find your podcast. Don’t miss an episode. Hit the follow or subscribe button now. Have a great time and see you soon. Your Uli and Markus. Rock and roll.

Music:[52:01] Music

 

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